POTD: Austrian Gardebataillon with Steyr AUG (Stg77)

@HemingwaysBeard I'd assume there were "non specifications" changes that incrementally improved light transmission. Not because they're specified to improve, but out of manufacturing convenience and economy of scale.

Anyone has insider knowledge here?

@HemingwaysBeard Not really...physics has a way of limiting what upgrades can be made. The tube is very small...13-14 mil. A vortex strike eagle 1-6 or any modern scope would blow it away.

@Uncle Yar They did several upgrades. The optic is in an inner tube which sits in the receiver tube. In the early days they were not nitrogen filled, which was quickly changed. The very first reticles were etched, now they are made of metal and hanging by 4 "threads", so it looks like a crosshair.
I am issued a AUG-P, where this crosshair even continues through the donut. So there is a little crosshair inside the circle.
Jagdkommando and some other units got issued the A2 and A3, equipped with Aimpoints, LLM by Rheinmetall and whatnot and also the MP got updated versions wit Aimpoint micro, Magnifier and light/laser module.
The federal police got A3 models with Aimpoint PRO, Surefire X300-U, 15"barrel wit A2 compatible flash hider,, Corvus Defensio rail kit, Magpul VFG, case deflector and BFG Vickers slings.

@Uncle Yar The glass was always good quality in both the Austrian and Australian made ones I used. Given the glass was good quality, not a lot could be done to increase light transmission since nothing could really be done with aperture and tube size of the integrated optic.
Only other major differences was the reticle pattern selection between nations which seemed to either be 1. plain donut 2. Donut with internal cross hair (NZ) 3. Donut with external cross hair (Australia) or 4. Donut with cross hair running internally to externally through the donut (Austria). Unsure what other user went with or variations of.

@Revierler Interesting info! What do you do brother? Also what’s your opinion on your issued firearm? Big fan, good enough, or wish I had something else?

@jono102 i'd have to disagree with the glass quality being good. every sight I've looked down has horrible eyebox, fov, fish eyeing and colour distortion

@SoundsLikeSight Well, I served in the army (compulsory basic service, 8 months), got to shoot the AUG A1 there, though not very extensively.
I like the AUG in it´s original configuraition, but I am prone to the new A3 BMI. (BMI=Ministry of the Interior, Home Office).

I like both for what they are, though the new A3 BMI has a 15" barrel and a OAL of just 28,9". It is select fire, shoots sub-MOA and is very quick to wield. It´s shortness lends to using it in confined spaces, getting in and out of vehicles. So perfect for law enforcement. Automatic fire is extremely controllable and I can shoot it from the left shoulder, due to the shell deflector. There is ample rail estate left for adding a magnifier, laser module - or a picatinny mounted espresso machine, maybe. For me it is all I need in a patrol rifle, but then again, I also love the M4 platform, as I happen to own an AR in private. To each his own, I guess.

@rklk: Bear in mind, that this optic reaches back to the mid-70´s of the final century of the last millenium... the glass for the Austrian AUGs was made by Swarovski, so the quality is good, but a small aperture has it´s drawbacks. Also bear in mind, that this is the rifle for Joe Average in a conscript army, not for specialized troops. These get their own versions with all the bells and whistles.
eg. the EKO Cobra (Austrian anti terror unit) got a bunch of .300BLK AUGs, NATO stock, equipped with LLM, Aimpoint CompM4 and other fine stuff... we keep trying to push the limits.

https://imgl.krone.at/scale...

@rklk You have to remember you are talking about a 1.5 x optic with a reasonably narrow tube on a rifle with a fixed or non adjustable layout. The points you mentioned can be just as easily attributed to a firer induced issue than the optic.
In regards to quality in my time I have had encountered the same if not more other issue optics like ACOG's, Schmidt & Benders break than the 1.5x on the issue Steyrs

@jono102 i can agree that the sights are tanks, i've personally never seen one broken, especially compared to the Elcan 1-4 spectre sights. that being said I prefer the Elcan or Acog over the donut sight

@Revierler I went through basic when the Australian army had introduced the EF88 with the Elcan 1-4 so everytime I use a rifle with the donut sight I notice the flaws of the sight and can't help comparing them.

@rklk True, these are superior optics. But please think conscript army. The concept was: Between 0 and 300 meters put a man sized target in the middle of the circle and it will fall. It won´t get any easier to teach concripts the basics of shooting. It also was a concept for a defense oriented army, hunkering down in positions and waiting for the enemy to approach, so yeah, it was a valid concept and ahead of it´s time back then - 45 years ago. It put the average austrian soldiers at an advantage over all the others who were still using iron sights - even the US forces.

Nowadays there are lots of better options available. I guess the need for upgrading was never felt to be stringent enough, aside from the permanent lack of funds.

@jono102 The "cross hair" are the thread by which the donut is hung in the optic after they changed to a metal reticle from the etched one. At least that´s what I was told in armorer´s school.

@Lee No doubt an optic that came up 40 years later will definitely be superior!!!

@ Yes, but they are our thugs.

@Revierler Wait, they went from an etched reticle to wires? I thought everybody else was going in the other direction, on the basis that etched is more durable.

@ In Western Europe, these units are actually used for terrorists, kidnappers and similar situations, not to raid homes looking for a joint.

@Revierler .300BLK AUG? I'm drooling.

@Revierler Israelis still issue M16A1s to some, so it's not like you guys are in a bad company. A very slow, gradual upgrade, starting with those who see action, makes more sense.

@int19h Quite a few German opposition politians had their homes raided somewhat recently.

Obviously nobody really knows whether they were justified, but it *surely* does look ugly.

@3331 You mean the guy from AfD who was charged with large scale tax evasion? That "raid" appeared to consist mostly of accountants. Here's a photo from it:

https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

@int19h True, it seems that LE over here have a different approach to doing their job. In Austria there is the basic principle of proportionality that spans like an umbrella over LE actions.. Eg. if you handcuff a 6 year old kid you get in serious trouble, which is something I saw several times on US TV.

Use of force is also subject to a strict catalogue of rules, following the principle of proportionality.
Maybe it's the code of laws, because we follow civil law with fixed rules that are equal for everyone as opposed to the common law system in the Anglican sphere.

@Revierler It's the way you train your cops. For starters, you train regular cops and special teams separately, so they can have different training curriculum - the guy who walks the beat is not the same guy who practices forced entries with APCs and full auto carbines.

US also did it this way (and had way fewer special teams). Then politicians decided to latch onto the "war on drugs", so that they could claim "tough on crime" cred. And what better way to do it than to ramp up the violence, so that voters see doors busted on prime time TV? So long as you keep telling them that it's directed at the "bad guys", and they keep believing that, they'll only cheer.

This created the modern SWAT. And since it was made out of existing cops - who remained cops - the culture that was brewing within SWAT gradually poisoned the overall police culture. And SWAT culture was poisoned from the get go (the original acronym, devised by the guy who came up with the idea, meant "Special Weapons Attack Teams" - it was changed because that was deemed overly aggressive for public acceptance).

From there it sort of became self-reinforcing, because senior cops train rookies - both on the job, and as private instructors. So the new cop will hear all about how he is a valuable "sheepdog" who is fundamentally different from all the "sheep" around, and must always be prepared for extreme violence and have readiness to kill so as to protect the "sheep" from the "wolves", who hide among them.

@int19h In Austria every police officer (even if they become dispatchers, admin... later) has to go through basic training (24 months - 12 months training, then 3 months in the field with senior officers, 6 months training and finally another 3 months out on the beat with senior officers) before he can be a beat cop. Then, usually after some years, he can specialize. Anti terror units have their own departments. Other units like alpine police or anti riot are recruited from beat cops and do this as a side-job in addition to normal duty.

@Revierler I wouldn't take that a face value. A lot of the advances are in manufacture efficiency and not so much glass quality. I recently looked through a scope from the 70s and was impressed by the light transmission and clarity. Way better than the Chinese optics I've seen. I'm not saying optics aren't better now. They absolutely are. But that blanket statement is completely inaccurate in my personal experience.

@rklk Coincidentally I keep thinking about getting an Elcan 1-4 for my AUG. How do you like it on that platform?

I wish we could get the EF88 here.

@mig1nc If you set it into perspective my argument might not be so far away from true: I fathom it was a top tier optic from the 70s that will probably be beat in clarity by nowadays' mid range optics, apart from other benefits like illuminated reticles, BDC reticles...

Just guessing.

@int19h Me: "Quite a few German opposition politians ..."
You: "You mean the guy from ..."

Spot the error.

@3331 apart from my spelling error :)

@3331 This is the one that I knew of. You're welcome to name the rest of them, demonstrate how the searches and seizures have been for political reasons and not because of their criminal activity, and show photos of an actual raid.

@mig1nc what have you got on it at the moment? i'd personally experiment with a LPVO with various height rings. i can never really get a good cheek weld/shoulder weld in the prone with a Elcan 1-4. it's fine if you're shooting off hand or kneeling. I've personally never had issues with the elcan but we had one guy who had a dud sight that couldn't adjust his elevation low enough and shot a couple meters over the target.